Chat between frinds

It's often the case where I learn more about programming from a conversation over google talk then I do form reading a book.  This is a copy of one such conversation between two of my friends.  I thought the content was good enough to actually post for others to read.


Sqrl says:
Feels nice to perfect a 468-line data model using LINQ extremely liberally

Llama says:
how does LINQ relate to a data model?

Sqrl says:
Probably the wrong word

There are a number of properties of my data model that I'm exposing that are little but fundamental interpretations of the data

That's where the LINQ resides

Llama says:
data operations then
technically speaking your data model should be POCO's

Sqrl says:
What's that?

Llama says:
Plain Old CLR Objects

Sqrl says:
Why?

Llama says:
ask yourself this question, what is a Data Model, simple answer, a unified representation of the data in a system
not a unified representatino of the logic in the system
by using POCO's you make your system firstly portable and simply definable

Sqrl says:
Well
I'm defining a system in which the rules can be changed dynamically by simply modifying some .csv or .xml files
For example, there is a number that defines how many slots you can put in your ship before the size in increased a level.
This size number is fundamental to the data itself, but emerges based on the rules
So, although it includes logic, I've included it in my data model
Defense and Speed are based on size and, again, fundamental
They also emerge from some logic

Llama says:
This is where i tell you, your system will never scale you've just written a very small idea
so if for example you want to do server side scaling of your game

Sqrl says:
Are you suggesting I should separate them into two different layers?

Llama says:
it won't happen and would be a nightmare
lol i'm suggesting you learn about software architecture
you can program, but the where and why needs to be taught

Sqrl says:
I try -_-

Llama says:
lol you suceed
dude
this is something i learned only 18 months ago at best

Sqrl says:
So would the problem be that so much computation is done server-side?

Llama says:
the problem is, if you try to do server side calculations you can simply push data easily in a POCO from client to server
your having to push the entire logic base with it and deploy the same logic on client and server
OR
do stateful server side objects which don't scale either

Sqrl says:
Well

Llama says:
meaning when you create an instance of an object it stays alive on the server, rather that data moving through a system

Sqrl says:
This particular data and rule set would be computed and immutable when the actual "game" part begins, I'll tell you that

Llama says:
having dicipline does NOT make up for architectural mistakes


Sqrl says:
hah
Fair enough
I'ma quote that, actually.

Llama says:
See your trying to apply a simple OOD which in truth is fundamentally flawed
by that, when you create an Object Oriented System, to be properly constructed it must implement this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_(object-oriented_design)
Its the only way of making an OO system scale and be properly designed

Sqrl says:
I never did understand where the line is drawn with SRP

Llama says:
more is better
meaning, if you have to break up logic into multiple logic blocks because it violates the single responsibility, then do so
so take this for example
you have a Repository object that handles CRUD (create, retrieve, update, delete) operations
now a repository pattern does not a happy llama make but its an easy way to explain this
Technically speaking the object can follow SRP if it does CRUD operations
but that can lead to a ton of operations right?

Sqrl says:
yeah

Llama says:
insert, update, delete, and data queries
so one could say that doing insert, update, delete, and select by id is one responsibility because its doing autonomous operations on an entity in the model
and any queries should be seperated out to a secondary or multiple objects in order to satisfy SRP
both are valid interpretations
however breaking it down further gives greater scope to the SRP making it more real

Sqrl says:
hrm
But certainly wouldn't create one object to generate the Defense, another to generate Speed

Llama says:
why not
they're components aren't they?
or is it making too many objects?

Sqrl says:

public int Speed
        {
            get
            {
                return (int)Math.Ceiling(this.AllSlots
                    .Where(i => i.SlotType == SlotType.Engine
                        || i.SlotType == SlotType.Universal)
                    .Where(i => i.SlottedSystem != null)
                    .Where(i => i.SlottedSystem is IShipEngine)
                    .Sum(i => (i.SlottedSystem as IShipEngine).Thrust)
                    / (float)this.Size);
            }
        }

That's it
Llama says:
ok, thats a horrible bastardization of a data layer
you did that in a getter? o.O

Sqrl says:
Hahahaha

Llama says:
dude, ICalculateSpeed ftw

Sqrl says:
Are you serious?

Llama says:
as a heart attack
you CAN use a factory to keep a singleton of it
but thats logic hiding in the data layer
its a calculation leading from one entity to a speed value
You do want to learn proper OO systems no?

Sqrl says:
Why would I use a singleton instead of a static method?

Llama says:
Its a piece of logic, which is encapsulated into an object
therfore keeping w/ the DIP principle you have an interface to define the operation, and an object instance to operate it
keeping a singleton just manages memory overhead
but you can manage that w/ the Factory
which yields flexibility
rather than a run of the mill rigidity that using a Utility class w/ a static method gives you
make sense?

Sqrl says:
Yeah
Damn good song btw http://listen.grooveshark.com/s/The+Truth+Of+A+Liar/2gag9R?src=5

Llama says:
i'll have to check it out on pandora

Sqrl says:
I can definitely see where the flexibility comes in
It builds more of an internal protocol-based system instead know-it-all master objects

Llama says:
see: God Object
suprisingly, it builds a stronger system with fantastic segregation
you can tune and tweak various parts of the system
AND
its bloody easy to unit test
you can create various proxy objects to plug into the system that mock actual logic, so your system can be 100% testable

Sqrl says:
And now

Llama says:
especially testing negatively

Sqrl says:
I have struggle with the decision of getting this thing done or plow through it so I can use it
It's a tool I wanted to use two weeks ago

Llama says:
Star Thugs?

Sqrl says:
yeah

Llama says:
hahaha
rebuild it yo
use it as a teaching moment for yourself

Sqrl says:
Well here's the good news
I'm still using MVVM, even though my models are a bit massive
So I can finish it off and refactor the models without remaining committed to my shit

Llama says:
sweet
well i got NUnit to start running my F# unit tests
namespace Llama.Test
open NUnit.Framework

[<TestFixture>]
type EndpointRegistryTests() =
    [<Test>]
    member x.add_value_to_registry() : unit =
        printfn "hello testing world 2"
        Assert.AreEqual(5, 5)

not bad for unit tests
Sqrl says:
Hahahaha

Llama says:
now i actually gotta fill in logic

Sqrl says:
Just testing the JIT
Iz coo

Llama says:
next is start testing components in my node server

Sqrl says:
How portable is the ViewModel architecture to ASP MVC?

Llama says:
depends on what you do
if its my framework Kronos
extremely
we actually had this type of layer for how data moves through layers

ViewModel -> Domain
View -> Controller -> Provider -> (Service : Optional) -> NHibernate
the domain object would live till the controller
then we'd do a transform using AutoMapper to a ViewModel to be used in the View
we use this for a very damn good reason, Domain objects are actually dynamically generated inherited objects that do lazy loading etc that are attached to a Session
So if we access a collection on an object in a view, we're literally running a db query in the view layer

Sqrl says:
lololol

Llama says:
So thats why we use ViewModels
So you know, Crystal thought my description of your getter as being a grose bastardization was rude
She says i should be nicer
>,>

Sqrl says:
Hahahaha

Llama says:
Granted, i won't be, because we devs are the way we are

Sqrl says:
'course

Llama says:
but its the thought that really counts
i told her it def wasn't the worst thing i've ever said

Sqrl says:
Gawd, what do you do when ignorant people call cute flash animations "programming"?

Llama says:
cuz they think it is